p. 140 - "you cannot measure the effect of prayer the way you measure the effect of sunlight. nor is it like a slot machine, where sometimes you hit the jackpot and other times the investment is simply wasted. God may be supplicated but not coerced. the human task is not to tote up results, but to engage in this mysterious and beautiful discipline of the soul."
my reactions: the slot machine metaphor is an effective one, but i don't like how it is used. most people's experience with prayer is closer to winstar casino than it is to a secluded grotto, and that reaction should not be demeaned. as for coercion, abraham and gideon come to mind as OT figures who negotiated with God. finally, i agree with the mystery and beauty of prayer, but what does one do with ask/seek/knock?
those are my thoughts. what about yours?
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8 comments:
Wolpe's statement is attractive. I know of very few people who view prayer as a heavenly slot machine. It's possible that fringe Christians who pray once a month might offer up a prayer in a desperate situation, hoping to get lucky.
Wolpe says God cannot be coerced. I also thought about the fact that Abraham 'negotiated' with God on behalf of Sodom (Gen. 18). That's not exactly coercion, but it's not just supplication, either.
In Luke 18, Jesus tells a parable "to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart." That's not exactly coercion either, but it's almost "coercion by nagging."
I'm not sure that Abraham's story is intended to teach all Christians everywhere to negotiate with God. But I'm pretty sure that Luke 18 is intended as an admonition to all Christians to persist in prayer.
I like the idea that prayer is important because it is a "mysterious and beautiful discipline of the soul." Well put. When I get into extended periods of time with no prayer, I definitely sense that my soul is languishing from malnutrition.
What do we do with ask/seek/knock? There are several statements in the "sermon on the mount" that are difficult.
I recently heard someone describe the sermon on the mount as applying to the pre-covenant theology. In other words, Jesus issues several statements that are intended to 'prepare the way' for the new covenant.
Perhaps the ask/seek/knock idea belongs to that?
also i think of the persistent widow example. she nagged her way into a divine intervention.
'pray and not lose heart' - good idea, but little consolation for me. its hard to keep going when there is not indication your signal hit God's antenna.
i think i can work with that last idea. jesus tells his audience the new 'kingdom' will be so great that its arrival will be heralded by ask/seek/knock events. good first century expectation, not so much now. is that what you mean?
Yeah, the sermon on the mount contains several statements that applied for a short period of time. See Matt. 5:17-20, and all the "But I say to you" statements.
Yet, several statements seem to be valid today, e.g., "When you pray ...," "When you fast ...," "Judge not ...," etc.
It's noteworthy that the Ask/Seek/Knock statement follows several statements that diminish the importance of material goods:
* Treasures on earth - Matt. 6:19-21
* God and money - Matt. 6:24
* Do not be anxious about your life - Matt. 6:25-34
It's also noteworthy that Luke's record of the Ask/Seek/Knock statement ends differently. Instead of "... how much more will your Father ... give good things" (Matt. 7:11)
Luke ends it "... how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit" (Luke 11:13)
The Matthew statement makes us think that God will give us anything "good thing" we want. Luke limits it to the "Holy Spirit."
Maybe Matthew got it wrong?
ok, how 'bout that 'give the holy spirit' thing? is it detectable? like a caffeine rush? how would i describe the before / after?
Have we already trod on the "Holy Spirit thing"?
In my experience, yes, it's detectable.
You got a problem with that?
since it has indeed come up again, it is most likely a problem for me. my detecto-meter seems to be malfunctioning.
A few possibilities exist:
1. My detecto-meter is overly sensitive and is getting too many false readings.
2. You are one of the few honest ones. I suspect that many Christians confuse a reading on their detecto-meter with heartburn from last night's spaghetti.
I had the benefit of being converted (from Lutheranism) when I was about 19. Thus, the born-again experience was clearly detectable for me.
Assuming that you grew up in the church, you may be like so many Christians I know. They cannot point to a definitive conversion moment when the holy spirit was injected.
They can (1) lament the apparent absence of a holy spirit, or (2) forge onward in obedience.
Does any of that apply to you?
i was raised in an environment where the HS was a second class citizen at best. not judging, that's just the way it was. despite my 'unawareness', i believe the HS made an entrance. it's the day-to-day discernment that concerns me. wolpe says that submitting to the mystery is not resignation but humility. i am trying to head in that direction, for HS activity as well as prayer.
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